Closing Thought–28Mar18

Let the debate begin!

I read an op-ed today that fits with a debate that we have been having here on IST and thought I would let it continue……

I thought I would enclose this post as my “Closing Thought” because more people seem to go here and not the body of the day.

An ex-Supreme Court justice appointed by Gerald Ford has offerd up his opinion on the gun debate (not gonna make too many happy)…..

Rarely in my lifetime have I seen the type of civic engagement schoolchildren and their supporters demonstrated in Washington and other major cities throughout the country this past Saturday. These demonstrations demand our respect. They reveal the broad public support for legislation to minimize the risk of mass killings of schoolchildren and others in our society.

That support is a clear sign to lawmakers to enact legislation prohibiting civilian ownership of semiautomatic weapons, increasing the minimum age to buy a gun from 18 to 21 years old, and establishing more comprehensive background checks on all purchasers of firearms. But the demonstrators should seek more effective and more lasting reform. They should demand a repeal of the Second Amendment.

With that call then ask how hard would it be to repeal the second?

Repealing the amendment, Stevens said, would effectively overturn the controversial 2008 Supreme Court ruling D.C. v. Heller, which found that the Second Amendment protected “an individual right to possess a firearm” for the purpose of self-defense.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/how-difficult-would-it-be-to-repeal-the-second-amendment

Because I like being fair to all sides of a debate I want to include another op-ed that disagrees with Stevens………(written several years ago…..)

THE TRAGEDY at Virginia Tech may tell us something about how a young man could be driven to commit terrible actions, but it does not teach us very much about gun control.

So far, not many prominent Americans have tried to use the college rampage as an argument for gun control. One reason is that we are in the midst of a presidential race in which leading Democratic candidates are aware that endorsing gun control can cost them votes.

This concern has not prevented the New York Times from editorializing in favor of “stronger controls over the lethal weapons that cause such wasteful carnage.” Nor has it stopped the European press from beating up on us unmercifully.

http://www.latimes.com/la-oe-wilson20apr20-story.html

One more op-ed for you to consider……

FOR more than 80 years, the United States has enforced a tough and effective gun control law that most Americans have never heard of. It’s a 1934 measure called the National Firearms Act, and it stands as a stark rebuke to the most sacred precepts of the gun lobby and provides a model we should build on.

Leaders of the National Rifle Association rarely talk about the firearms act, and that’s probably because it imposes precisely the kinds of practical — and constitutional — limits on gun ownership, such as registration and background checks, that the N.R.A. regularly insists will lead to the demise of the Second Amendment.

In CLOSING:  I am NOT advocating the repealing of the 2nd….I enjoy a spirited debate and included below in case you want to voice your opinion then I suggest you check out this site…..

http://www.debate.org/opinions/should-the-2nd-amendment-be-repealed

Time to go and see what the rest of the internet is  up to today…..TTFN…..chuq

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23 thoughts on “Closing Thought–28Mar18

  1. In my opinion, former Justice Stevens addresses the only resolution. That’s because those states passing their own legislation are subject to being sued by the NRA. If the federal government passes legislation, it’s subject to being sued by the states. There are already individual suits filed since some stores have refused to sell guns to those under the age of 21.

    I wouldn’t care if the 2nd Amendment was repealed. It could be replaced with limitations. For example, I do consider that some people live in areas where wild animals can harm their livestock and even small children. A rifle or shotgun is necessary to have in those cases, in addition to those who hunt to eat. (Although I don’t understand the purpose for hunting when people can go to the store and purchase meat.)

    1. You touch on the one thing you’ll almost NEVER hear in the debate from any side…that if the 2nd Amendment was properly treated as the irrelevant historical relic that it actually is…or was deleted outright…it would NOT make any gun illegal AT ALL. Guns -and gun owners- would only have to obey national/state/local laws. Something they’re supposed to do every day with everything else. (Oh, the tyranny!) The NRA’s power would make sure only the bluest & most urban of Blue states could/would even attempt to pass anything to limit guns. And most of what would get passed is penny-ante shit. (background checks, gun locks, clip limits)

      Gun owners seriously need to take a chill-pill. If you live in a Red/rural state, you’ve got a better chance of being taken to Gitmo for that 7 year old anti-Obama e-mail you sent Cousin Earl than you have getting your hunting rifle taken away.

      1. Sedate Me, you hit the proverbial nail on the head. Part of the Civil War was to decide state’s rights. I live in Illinois, and several years ago there was court action challenging not passing conceal carry as a violation of the 2nd Amendment. Then governor Quinn had to allow conceal carry because of the court’s ruling.

        So, those on the same side of the aisle argue constitutional rights to own guns, and out of their same mouths, they argue state rights for issues such as abortion although that issue was declared as a constitutional right to privacy by SCOTUS.

      1. LOL! Exactly! We don’t have to worry about skinning, removing and disposing of guts, or saving the bones to make arrows or needles for sewing.

    2. Yeah. Open carry. Concealed carry. Those rulings are all ridiculous and completely unsubstantiated. The judges just pulled them out of their own asses. Where in the 2nd Amendment does it say….

      “Wave it in the air like you just don’t care?”

      The complete opposite is closer to the 2nd Amendment. It clearly states “well regulated militia”. Well regulated….organization, structure, order, purpose, . That means training, discipline, safely locked up guns. Yet imposing even these kind of things have been ruled “off limits” by idiotic judges who clearly can’t read and probably own stock in weapons manufacturers. How many armed forces have you heard of that don’t have “armouries” and let their troops walk the streets, or go into bars, with their loaded weapons?

      The idea (Scalia in Heller ruling) that a trigger lock denies a gun owner his “right to bear arms” is..not just completely unjustified by the 2nd Amendment…but is probably the most illogical bullshit I’ve ever heard. It’s exactly like saying the key lock on my car’s ignition switch prevents me from driving my car. Idiotic!

      “This is your brain on drugs guns.”

  2. There should be no debate because History clearly demonstrates that in countries where the citizens have lost their rights to own guns tyranny has taken over and made the governments of those unfortunate places oppressive, repressive tyrannies complete with government-approved executions and imprisonment and enslavement of political dissidents and America should not make that mistake.

      1. John, could you expound on what you mean by’

        “Take away the guns and America is done as a free nation with a free people.”

        I ask because our government is militarily equipped to stop any “revolution” or campaign by citizens with guns. It’s a no win situation for citizens, regardless of how many guns they have. Along with that, citizens are not organized and skilled in warfare to protect themselves against our armed government. Having people in the street shooting at the National Guard will only result in innocent lives being taken and property destroyed.

        Did you see what the National Guard did in Ferguson, MO?

      2. On reflection I have to agree with you about the military superiority of the American Military Establishment and the futility of anyone thinking that citizens could prevail in any armed conflict with the forces of the Established Political Order. I was parroting a favorite old cliche that a lot of pro-gun advocates use when they speak of Government going on a gun-confiscation binge. My common sense now takes control and allows me to tell you that you are One Hundred Percent correct in your assessments and I am grateful for you bringing this to my attention. Thank you.

    1. This “criminalization of guns” nonsense is a total red herring. Constitution or not, that discussion isn’t even in the realm of possibility in America. Not going to a bar without some loudmouth asshole “legally” staggering around with a loaded weapon is a FAR, FAR, more accurate description of what’s on-tap here. Because that’s what America’s mindless gun-worship has produced…people who should NEVER own firearms (See: Terrorist Watch List) owning firearms…even in situations NOBODY should have firearms in. Even minor, responsible gun ownership regulations (ie trigger locks, keep them unloaded) have been incorrectly ruled “unconstitutional”. So this is a red herring designed to rally the troops. Any rational assessment is that gun ownership has -over the last 25-30 years- gotten less restrictive overall.

      But I hear this “history shows tyrannies take your guns” stuff all the time. Rarely are examples of this history actually provided. Ironically, I personally knew a guy from a formerly fascist country who (at age 15) was given an anti-aircraft gun… he didn’t even want. It was forced on him to defend the Fatherland from foreign invasion. How fascist is that?

      The US already has the most prisoners and executes the most people. Clearly, these things operate independently….well, unless America is a fascist state already and just forgot to issue the Press Release.

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