Good Lord! Do these idiots have to give their mouths a rest and let their brain do some work? Apparently…NOT! These anal statements are just mounting daily……it should be a good year for the “Assies”…..
Abortion has been in the news ever since the new Reps have gotten to Washington and in the states…..Jobs were suppose to be on the agenda, but has yet to make an appearance…….so this anal statement is about abortion…..
The Indiana House of Reps is debating a new anti-abortion bill……and to counter what a Dem had just suggested….Rep, Eric Turner (R) said:
I just want you to think about this, in my view, giant loophole that could be created where someone who could — now i want to be careful, I don’t want to disparage in any way someone who has gone through the experience of a rape or incest — but someone who is desirous of an abortion could simply say that they’ve been raped or there’s incest.
He did not want to disparage anyone and then went on to disparage them…….do Repubs know what they sound like? Besides is that a problem? People lying about rape to get an abortion? Do they realize that every time one of them makes statements like this they are portrayed as a moron…an unfeeling moron?
Just another argument to add to my mountain of arguments that men should have no say on this issue.
Welcome Kurt nice to have you aboard……I agree completely and totally with you……that is an issue that is none of my business and no one else’s either…..
I agree. Let’s roll back Roe v. Wade, then, please. The Justices were men.
As I have said…if we want the government out of our lives then it is either all out or all in……people need to decide….we cannot talk about smaller government while forcing people to conform to our way of thinking…..Personally,. I want them all OUT!
I’m all for government out of people’s lives, too. But I do want the government to protect those who cannot protect themselves. I believe abortion is murder and government has a responsibility to enforce laws against it. I won’t stop fighting for that until it happens. Period.
Yeah, well… I guess you can’t help it if your country is about half a century behind the times…
Sadly……you are being generous and I thank you……
I don’t see how he disparaged anybody. Some women are in fact raped and desire an abortion. But other women, should there be a proscription of some sort, may claim rape just so they could obtain one. That, I think, is reality.
I regret that I cannot agree……I would need to see real proof that it happens……by real I mean legal documents…I will not believe FOX or MSNBC or CNN….they are in it for the cash and the ratings…..if he is accusing then he needs to offer proof…..but I imagine it is like all the bluster about the people…..made up to make a point…..
lobotero,
This is something I think common sense can settle. If you were a woman and wanted an abortion really bad, for whatever reason, but were prohibited for whatever reason, would you make up a story in order to meet the requirement?
Who wouldn’t? If you wanted one that bad.
Look, in case the Left hasn’t figure it out yet, the Right is throwing all kinds of pro-life bills at the wall to see what sticks. They’re looking for precedent that, one day, may be used to help overturn Roe. That’s what the pro-life camp is doing. And I know that’s what the pro-life camp is doing because I’m one of the legislative lobbyists in my state. Once or twice a year, we head toward the capitol, meet with like-minded politicians, and help draw up legislation they introduce. I’m helping write a bill right now that’s going to restrict abortion big time in my state. Just wait until it gets brought into public. The pro-choice camp is going to go nuts.
Terrance, I see where you are coming from….let me say that I am pro-life personally…but I will not inflict my beliefs on anyone else….especially this or religion or well you get my point…….yes, I probably would lie….but then if it was up to me …no one would have to lie……
I like some of the libertarian thinking…..I like the part about the government needs to stay completely out of my personal life…….I just think there are more important issue than what a woman decides to do with her body……
And of course you know what my response would be to that last part. LOL.
It’s a never-ending debate, to be certain.
True…and at least we can debate without the name calling and the lies….differences of opinion are good and productive…..
If a woman claims rape or incest, there will probably be a police report involved. So are we now accusing woman of filing false police reports and/or getting a family member in some serious trouble, just to go have an abortion.
I dont know one woman who would do that. I also dont know any women who think like the right wants us to believe they think, meaning, abortions, hair-cuts, manicures, thats what liberal women do on thursdays. If men could get pregnant, abortions would be available at Home Depot.
That’s not really true, Phillip. Even the Left will tell you that many women are simply too ashamed to report their rape.
So they are too ashamed to report it, but they will” fake report” it to get abortions? Why is it the right thinks abortions are something woman crave?
It’s much easier to tell a woman, in private, that you’ve been raped and need an abortion than for a woman to tell the police, a judge, a jury, and a prosecutor.
You can attach a stylish word to this if you want, but many women do crave – i.e., greatly desire – an abortion. That’s just a fact.
Sorry, but I see this discussion as absolute bullshit!
If a woman wants an abortion, she wants an abortion. What has that to do with anyone else – except conceivably (no pun intended) the father, if he’s around)? I know this is not ALWAYS the case and maybe American women are somehow different, but I doubt it, but do you GUYS have ANY IDEA the sort of anguish and mental torture a woman goes through before, during and often for years after an abortion – even of a baby-to-be that she doesn’t want – even one resulting from rape? Do you? ‘Cos I don’t – I can only guess!
This is making decisions for and about moral matters for women (mainly by frequently hypocritical men) based on religious dogma that the individual concerned may not follow in what is (or should be) a secular society.
Are you honestly insinuating that my pro-life views are the result of religious dogma? Are you serious?
I’ve never discussed it with you. In fact, I don’t know you at all, so I couldn’t and I really wouldn’t want to say.
However, if you pushed me to decide in those very unsatisfactory circumstances, I would have to generalise hugely and say – probably, yes! My reasons for disagreeing with your stance are FAR more complicated than that, but here would not be an appropriate place to debate my and your beliefs.
I have no argument whatsoever with what you believe – it is your right – just as long as you accept it as yours and leave me to mine and others to theirs!
To put it another way – YOUR beliefs are YOURS and not anyone else’s. So how do you (or anyone else) presume to make such huge decisions of a moral nature for people who don’t even share your gender, let alone (presumably) your beliefs?
That’s all I said – although, if you listen to the rantings of MANY of the more vociferous of the American “pro-lifers”, I think any sane person would say that their bile has its roots in religious dogma spewed out for political or other dubious purposes – or else they’re just plain nuts (like they justify murdering people involved in abortion, even though it’s perfectly legal).
Quin,
I have before challenged people to sift through my blog and find a single, solitary reference to God or the Holy Bible in one of my pro-life arguments. If they succeed in finding just one reference, I offer to send them $100 via PayPal. Nobody – but nobody – has won. And why? Because while God and His word are authorities in my life, I recognize this is not so for others. I am what you might refer to as a bilingual Christian; i.e., I can speak secular just as well as I can Holy Roller.
You seem to expose a belief in moral relativism, as do most who extol a pro-choice formula. That’s fine. But do you not recognize the problem with such a position?
Don’t Like Abortion? Don’t Have One! obviously reflects a relativist outlook. Your beliefs are your beliefs and my beliefs are my beliefs. Don’t force your beliefs on me, I won’t force mine on you. Sounds wonderful.
But it’s not practical. Take, for example, the following tidbit:
Don’t Like Slavery? Don’t Own A Slave! Would that be O.K., do you think, Quin? Moral relativism, right?
And what does my gender have to do with anything? Abortion is only legal in the United States because of men. The voters, such as myself, are just as important, if not more so, than the judicial branch. I am entitled to an opinion on abortion because I am part of this functioning society.
Oh, look. This is ridiculous. Almost all of your arguments are valid at one level or another, of course. But I could say something very similar back to you and I would be right in some ways too. OK – so I accept that your beliefs are not based directly on religion, but I think you’ll find that they still have their roots in those attitudes, whether you believe in a god or not.
I don’t believe in moral relativism, but then I’m not sure that I believe even in morals – in the form in which you are presenting them at least. In my view it is NOT AT ALL a question of the attitude you put forward in your example which is really entirely another subject, in my opinion. However, I too can run with that example.
MY view is that you should be free to do WHATEVER you want that DOES NOT HARM or seriously interfere with the lifestyle of another human being. There are grey areas of course, since nothing is ever as black and white as we believe, but such shades of action can be decided by common sense and PROPER education and a sense of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for one’s own actions along with a “do unto others…” approach to life and that sorts out most things like that.
Since you raise the matter, slavery falls neatly into this as an example, but not in the way you put forward. Keeping, owning, using a slave or forcing someone into slavery clearly harms that other – so it is and should be illegal. Getting rid of a few (or few million) dividing cells in anothers body does NOT (in my view) fall into anything like the same category.
We would debate this for decades, you and I, since there is another side to the slavery issue that can demonstrate the point here – blacks ARE (of course) human beings, where as white supremacists would argue not. Trust me when I say that most of the WORST assholes and “lesser human beings” I know are white! However, this highlights the point about abortion – YOU must surely believe that life once begun in the uterus is a human being, otherwise I cannot see where your argument could come from. Fine – we disagree. To me it’s just a bunch of cells and will not even BEGIN to become human until it is born.
Yes. You are entitled to an opinion as am I – but neither of us is entitled to try to FORCE an opinion on another that affects them and does NOT affect us (or for that matter anyone else)!
I understand your beliefs. I do not believe you have the right to attempt to force those beliefs on others. I am CONVINCED that you are wrong and abortion is NOT legal in the US because of men. I think you will find that much of the civilised world has moved on from where the US is today – but again, that’s my opinion. YOU won’t change that any more than I will change what you believe – nor do I have any particular desire to do so. These are core beliefs and we may discuss the points, but it would in my view be wrong to try to force our opinions on others.
If you will insist that we should legislate on moral issues (and as I’ve said, I really think we should NOT), but if you insist, then NO MALE AT ALL should be involved in drafting a law on this subject since it really only directly affects one gender and not another. To use your own example – forcing a woman to bear a child she does not want (and probably cannot afford) may well be to force her into a slavery of sorts that will last for most of the rest of her life.
Terrance, my problem with this whole thing is that pro-life supporters, I am speaking in general not specific, is that they are so concerned with the unborn but once he/she is born…..then they become a stat for the fight against WIC,Medicaid, etc…..it seems that the baby is only important before it is born….it is an issue before and a stat after……
Quin,
The problem with that mentality is that it was used to justify slavery in Colonial America. A widespread belief that African-Americans were underdeveloped or inhuman won the day, thereby removing any moral conflict.
The humanity of a group or individual is not contingent on our convenience. We do not get to decide the humanity of another group or person.Unborn children are human beings. Period. That fact is not open for discussion; it’s not debatable. And if you are to recognize that immutable fact, your own argument against slavery can be used, quite nicely, to justify a prohibition of abortion.
This isn’t about forcing my beliefs, but rather, existing law. Without just cause, we cannot take the life of another human being. Show me the just cause.
You’re right, though. We can debate this for decades. If you want to debate the matter further, I recommend meandering over to my blog so we don’t disturb loboteros.
I know what you mean, lobotero. I used to be a pro-life liberal, you know. But perceived conservative hypocrisy has nothing to do with the legitimacy of pro-life arguments. If abortion is wrong, it is wrong independent of any hypocrisy coming from those who say it is wrong.
It might be well to keep in mind, too, that while conservatives do not believe the government is the best instrument by which to help those who honestly need help, conservatives do in fact give more to charity – on average – than liberals. Liberals, on the flip side, want to pay more taxes to help the poor. So, both ends of the spectrum care about the poor and disadvantaged; we merely have different ideas of how best to take care of them.
I believe families, neighbors, churches, and organizations can handle the problem in conjunction with limited – very limited – government intervention. Regular people need to help regular people. Once the apathy stops, the squalor will stop.
Listen guys….as long as it is civil I have NO problem with a good exchange……and the exchange has been illuminating and civil…I thank you….
There is the rub…apathy….I realize that normally we all care about the disadvantaged….but sometimes it is hard to remember that when there is so much vile on the airways….and I mean both sides….all I want is the people to care about others and the country…like you say we have different ideas of how to accomplish that….I have a post later to day about the NPR thing…..this is why I have a hard time with the governance in this country….check it later….