The Paris attacks and the subsequent raids that killed the so-called “mastermind” has brought up the whole scenario about surveillance once again…..the hot button issue in the digital age…..
Extreme measures will be put into effect as soon as possible…..there is even some talk about the possibility of closing borders in Europe…..there will be stricter countermeasures put into place….
But the question that should be asked and fully answered is….will these measures be effective?
Officials are again pointing to the need for mass surveillance to take down terrorists. Here’s what we know about how well it works.
Good question, right?
Source: What’s the Evidence Mass Surveillance Works? Not Much – ProPublica
Since mass surveillance has never been invoked for defensive purposes in a long long time now what is the evidence that it doesn’t work? A double edged sword question.
France has a massive program…..cameras etc and still these nuts were able to sneak through….
Not to get too Clintonian, but it all depends on what your definition of the word “works” is. If your definition of word “works” is:
1) It’s intimidated members of The Outer Party into silence. Then, yes. It’s been wildly successful!
Just like in Orwell’s 1984, the constant surveillance wasn’t about keeping the bulk of the population, the Proletarians, in their place. They’re mindless sheep who avoid anything that requires thinking. They’re no threat. The surveillance was actually about monitoring folks in the lower-mid echelons of power and the higher echelons of civilian life. (My use of the word “Echelon” was chosen purely by non-coincidence, I assure you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON ) The real “threat” comes from folks with some voice who can still think for themselves and have a sense of right & wrong. But because they can connect dots, they can be silenced out of fear of the consequences.
Knowing that everything you do/say/write is being recorded & stored forever so it can be used against you at some point in the future…a future where all rights have been dissolved out the irrational fear of guys riding around deserts in pickup trucks….Well, it has a tendency to shut people up. And, in general, it has.
There has been some muted anger over the complete destruction of privacy and basic human rights. But when the FIMA re-education camps start, those who protested the stripping of their rights will be among the first “campers”. Occupy Wall Street existed, for a couple months. But again, no consequences whatsoever for the terrorists hiding in those towers. The activists, however, don’t get to fart anymore without it being added to their file. Despite the economic collapse & increasing takeover of Fascism, there was NO “North American Spring”. No riots. No government overthrow. No jail time. Not even mass firings. The worst they got was some bad PR.
Where are anti-(perpetual)-war protests? Vietnam took place in an ultra-naive, authority-trusting, era. But eventually, there were protests up the ying-yang. This fucking never-ending, global, war has been going on for 15 years now and I don’t even remember seeing 15 protests against it. There’s less opposition every day. And again, all those protestors brave enough to try, they have tents reserved in their name at the FIMA re-education camps.
In short, most people not scared shitless of the virtually non-existent terrorist threat are scared shitless of being caught committing a Thought Crime….And that’s the sweet, sweet, “smell of victory” that the Military Industrial Spy Complex has been snorting kilos of.
So, with that definition of “works” it’s worked perfectly.
2) Catching actual terrorists involved in actual terrorist plots Not so much.
First off, nearly everyone who has been caught weren’t actual terrorists. They were angry, desperate, morons with severe mental problems/impairments who were entrapped by the burgeoning FBI/government Entrapment Industry. While most seemed willing (or pretended they were and took the cash waved around), without government agents spoon feeding them every step of the way, precious few were capable of doing anything more than “exercising their 2nd Amendment rights”, so to speak. Monitoring everyone’s every move did NOTHING to help in this. If anything, it proves the effectiveness of good ol’ fashioned low-tech, frame-up, jobs….er…”law enforcement”.
Look at these “wanna be terrorists”. They’re idiot losers trying to get the world to pay attention to them by doing something stupid & suicidal. (See Diaper Boy, Shoe Guy, dude who locked his keys in his “car bomb”, the pressure cooker enthusiasts…and the 2 laughably called “terror attacks” in Canuckistan) In some cases, civilians went to the authorities with warnings about them and got absolutely NO RESPONSE. In one Canadian example, the DO-ER HIMSELF begged a courtroom to lock him up because, without help, he knew he was going to do something crazy-violent. The response? “Nope. There’s the door, kid! Now get lost.”
But “terrorists” or not. Their biggest hinderence was not Big Brother, but their own incompetence. They ALL managed to do what they attempted/failed completely unhindered. If they were actual professionals, or even had half a fucking clue what they were doing, there might be a big pile of corpses. Almost as many as an average month worth of mass shootings in America….which have also been completely unhindered by spying on everyone.
So, apart from all the jobs created spying on people and all profits for corporations in the Spy Industry, what good has infringing everyone’s constitutional rights done? Sweet fuck all!
But the best response you’ll get is “It’s all highly classified. But trust me, if only you knew the truth” ..which you’ll never be allowed to see because THEY violate YOUR privacy in total privacy.
Back in the 70’s I was a target of COINTELPRO because I was a radical….so I know exactly how this works….and I refuse to be silent for any reason….so if they want me they know where to find me….there are some here on wordpress that have tried to find a way to keep me quiet….I do love their lame attempts…..chuq
You were a target of COINTELPRO??? Oh, fuck! I learned all about those motherfuckers and their dirty tricks back in my edumacashun days. One of my Profs was an SDS…er…”immigrant” to Canada. (May I suggest your experiences be a topic on its own…although it might expose you to more “attention”.)
Back then, COINTELPRO had to use hand written letters, real (aka rotary) phones, and manually planted bugs to monitor you and fuck with your head via fake communications. Just imagine what they’d have done to you with the technology they have today! By comparison, everybody’s “smart” phone is a filing cabinet of personal info, a tracking device and a walking microphone! You wouldn’t be able to go to the can without Big Brother knowing whether it was #1 or #2. Lucky for you, your age has pushed you way down on their Enemy Priority List. You’ll probably only get snatched up when we hit Fascist-com 1, the day all “threats” are taken to camps. (Don’t laugh people! Even in Canuckistan, such plans existed and probably still do.)
But great! As if I probably didn’t already have one, just associating with you via the Web-pipes has guaranteed me a ticket to Gitmo…or Gitmo North. Depending on which government gets me first. I’m cheering for a spot at Toronto’s Casa Loma! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casa_Loma While not mentioned here, it actually WAS a designated Mobilization Day detention centre for Project PROFUNC. PROFUNC was a program to monitor law abiding lefties, build files on them & snatch them up on”M-Day” . The program existed into the 80’s.
Yep, back then I was the member of a party that was not very likable by the government….I also was an organizer for the IWW…..plus I had international contacts that were not the “normal”…..I was observed for about a year and found two mics in office…which I left in place and used as a “fun” thing….
Now you see why I do not get all “wordy” when I talk about this stuff…..for it has been going on for years we just did not know….
Shit! By the standards of the day, you got some pretty harsh treatment. You must have been one wobbly bastard to “deserve” that! 😉 Me, I’m wobbly all the time, but that’s from my efforts to dull the pain of merely living on this Prison Planet and holding the opinions that I do.
Hey, any idea where what camp they would have taken you? Or did America have re-education camps back then? Although, if they did, I’m sure the files will be classified for another 50+ years. But I’ll bet your camp probably wasn’t as nearly luxurious as Casa Loma, my local M-Day detention centre in those days! When I learned I had visited a still technically active M-Day detention centre (owned by the friggin’ Kiwanis Club!), I bust a gut in laughter…and outrage.
Anyway….by today’s standards, the treatment you got is total amateur hour! I’ve never (knowingly) broken any law, or been a union member. I joined a party for a year, but just to vote for a friend’s bid for a party nomination. But every time I pick up the phone, every time I send an e-mail, or post something on the Inter-webs…at least 5 governments (The 5 Eyes) have access to it. As previously mentioned, “smart” phones allow everyone to track you & eavesdrop. And every time I leave the house, I appear on numerous cameras…with the flimsiest of justifications. Shit, this summer 2 of my (idiot) neighbours installed 8+ spy cams on their houses. Who knows what for, what they’re aimed at, or who else has access to them…
My point? Nearly everyone, no matter how law abiding or apolitical they are, is getting even worse treatment than you did for actually being a “dangerous” radical. But few people are upset because they’re stupid enough to think “it’s for my own safety” and “I have nothing to fear because I’ve done nothing wrong”. (HA! HA! HA!)
NOBODY can withstand the kind of scrutiny we’re being put under just for being alive in 2015. Ironically, only the truly dangerous can avoid being caught up in it. When Mobilization Day finally happens, they’ll have enough “evidence” on everyone to potentially merit a trip to “summer camp”.
To the CSIS agent reading this comment: Please send me to Camp Casa Loma. That place just looks like it’s got a great S&M dungeon in it!
I would not have made it to a “camp”…I would had probably died from a fall from the roof of my house (a common ailment of people like me back in the 70-80’s)…
I thank god that they did not have the stuff they have today….it was easy to avoid them back then…
I am still the same person I was then…..I have not lost my radicalism….just learned to BS properly…..