Daily Agitator
I was not going to wade into this whole mosque thing after my initial post, but as usual thing s have changed…..this weekend there was a massive protest, both pro and con, on the building of the mosque at “ground zero”….first of all, it is two blocks away from the sacred ground….but that is not what I am talking about……
Then what?
The HATE! I watched the reports on the protest most of the weekend and saw such hate that it scares me….I mean several people were verbally assaulted not because they were Muslims, but rather because they looked like a Muslim (whatever that means)….the hate was everywhere…Americans are NOT Islam-phobic that HATE Islam, at least the mental midgets at the protests.
To my conserv friends…please disavow these dickheads…..this whole hate thing is going to be an embarrassment to the country and to the conserv movement….once again the Conservs have allowed the hate merchants on the ultra-right to do all they can to define conservatism….ande the sad part is you are allowing it by your silence.
Originally, I was for the mosque on constitutional grounds but thought more consideration and sensitivity should be found concerning its construction….but now I say screw build it…if America is going to stand for anything it has got to be religious tolerance and the right of private property…….so screw the hate merchants….build your community center!
A last note on the subject….I am beginning to think that the fanatical white power boyz have successfully and covertly enter into the frays…..these protests and the Tea Party, at least the hateful side of that movement….it looks like they are getting that foothold they have so long desired and emotional exceptionalism is aiding their infiltration………..
Pay attention or you may well live to REGRET it!
‘Religious’ tolerance?
The privileges of being classed as religion should be withdrawn from Islam.
If Hitler had claimed that ‘Mein Kampf’ was dictated by God, would we be forced to tolerate the Nazi Party as a religion? Islam is first and foremost a mind-destroying, totalitarian political ideology that spreads through the Body Politic like a virus.
Winston Churchill gave the correct diagnosis over a century ago, when he compared Islam to a contagious virus or meme – ‘as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog’ http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/islam-murder-meme-and-rabies-of.html
Consequently, Islam should be reclassified from ‘RELIGION’ to ‘PUBLIC MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEM’ – a virulent contagious mental illness. It could then be contained by the methods used to prevent the spread of typhoid and other lethal epidemics: enforced exclusion and quarantime of carriers, eradication of foci of infection, immunization of the susceptible population etc.
Trencherbone….thanx for stopping by but I have to disagree…….why do you condemn a religion when the one you belief has also the dictates from a God? Has Islam spread through our political system? Are you saying that we should treat Muslims as the Christians were treated by Rome?
Lobo, Islam is a complete way of life. Not only does it have religious aspects (you know, all that Allah and prayer and faith and morality stuff) but it also comes as a package deal complete with a legal system and penal code. It is political just as much as it is religious. In fact, the Ummah becomes the body politic with Islam as its sole political system and shari’a its legal system. In Saudi Arabia, for example, the nation’s constitution is the Qur’an.
Everything about daily life revolves around Islam: how you dress, what you eat, when you eat, when you pray, how you pray, what you believe, what you proselytize, what you listen to, how you behave, etc. etc. etc. And it’s not just an individual choice: it is a community-wide mandate. If you do not conform to the Islamic way-of-life, not only are you ostracized, but you realistically face persecution and even death.
Muslims should not be persecuted in America, but I do believe that we as a nation need to make it very clear to the Muslims living here and the Muslims seeking to immigrate here that Islam is not a welcome ideology. In fact, we should be ostracizing it into the same categories as Nazism and white supremacy. Is it illegal to be a member of the KKK? No. But most KKK members still keep their identity a secret. Why? Because the majority of American society loathes the KKK and everything it stands for. We need to get to the point where Islam is treated the same way: with disdain and loathing.
Natassia, welcome and thanx for all your comments….if we do that then the Constitution stands for nothing……if we demonize Islam where will it end? I do not believe that the Founders, though I may not agree with them on too much, did not want the country to treat religion as you suggest.
I’ll go along with and agree with EVERYTHING you say in your comment – but on ONE condition – include Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism and most other religions along with Islam.
If you REALLY want to get into the subject: religion – almost ALL religion – is oppressive, controlling, dogmatic, stupid and clearly utterly without foundation. Historically, it has also been both the direct cause and the excuse for causing even MORE pain, death and misery throughout the world ever since man left the caves behind, than that sourced from pathetic, tiny-minded bigots and racists – and that IS saying something BIG and nasty!
Quin, except Christianity, Judaism, and Hinduism are not political systems like communism, fascism, Nazism, and Islam are.
You are comparing apples with oranges here.
Your argument is also weak on logic. Without religion, why is oppression, control, dogmatism, and stupidity wrong? Sure, it can cause pain, death and misery to some…but not to the ones in power or the ones benefitting from the oppression and control. So really, it’s all subjective and relative. In fact, your entire moral premise is without foundation.
Even bigotry and racism are just words you use to label people who don’t see things the way you do. Why should people care about being “bigots” or “racists”?
Well said, Quin….and thanx
Natassia: Sorry, I don’t wish to be offensive, but I regard that as the biggest load of BS I’ve heard for at least an hour (happens all the time).
Firstly – tell the religious right in the US that Christianity has no political control or validity in that respect. Secondly, many countries and societies are run almost entirely according to the dictates of the indigenous religion – even though they claim to be secular in nature. Thirdly, bigots and racists are generally unpleasant people, but more importantly, they are rarely prepared to listen to reasoned argument from anyone.
We should ALL care about bigots and racists because they are frequently illogical, often loud and inconsiderate as they achieve far more attention than their limited viewpoint warrants and usually pose a serious threat to an ordered and peaceful society.
On top of all that, in my (seriously considered and researched) opinion, all the religions I’ve come across are pure bunkem and so-oooo much wealth, energy and importance is illogically wasted on them whilst REAL problems that societies face are often ignored or distorted in favour of the religious view.
I have no problem with people believing whatever they want – it is to my mind their right – what bothers me is when THEIR (in my view silly) beliefs affect MY life, wellbeing and happiness – in large part because it frequently modifies the way the society in which I live behaves towards its citizens.
Natassia, welcome and thanx for all your comments….if we do that then the Constitution stands for nothing……if we demonize Islam where will it end? I do not believe that the Founders, though I may not agree with them on too much, did not want the country to treat religion as you suggest.
Lobo, thanks for the welcome. And demonizing Islam is not unconstitutional. There is nothing in the Constitution that protects Islamic sensibilities. We are still a free people, right? And we still have the freedom to not tolerate that which we perceive to be a threat to our well-being and way-of-life, right?
I certainly wasn’t suggesting that we do anything illegal, but just as we have marginalized the KKK and other neo-Nazi groups, we can do the same with Islam. One of two things would happen: Most Muslims would publicly separate themselves from the ideology (since it could hurt employment prospects and social standing) or they would leave the country for more friendly territory.
Since Islam is just as political as it is religious, I don’t think the Founders would be too disappointed with Americans’ stance against it…especially since it has been the primary reason for so many deaths in America and around the world. 15,000+ deadly jihad attacks globally since 9/11 alone. Come on.
Besides, we all know how Thomas Jefferson felt about it, right? He (and John Adams), upon returning from a negotation with the Berbers regarding piracy and trade, reported that the Muslims believe Islam “was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Quran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman (Muslim) who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise.”
Weird, but isn’t that what today’s critics of Islam are saying?
True, but it does protect ones choice of religion…no matter how offensive I may find it. we could also say that the Jews are just a radical as the Muslims and yet some defend their rights also. Please do not mistake my words for any apology for Islam…I am looking at it solely as a political historian….I do not condemn nor condone anything done in the name of religion, no matter what religion it is.
Yes, I am aware of that quote and it is one of the reason that I went back to grad school…..that people that could put together the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence would actually say such things. Personally, I think they were words said in anger because the Barbary pirates would not cooperate with the US on the shipping thing.
BTW, I left a comment on your blog……
The Barbary pirates wouldn’t stop their piracy. Anger is a legitimate response.
But Jefferson was simply summarizing the words of the Muslim ambassador.