Oh God! The ballet has begun again…….the debate on the law called Obamacare. Silliness and absurdity are the chorus…….we are hearing all the crap over and over….kinda like the House votes on repealing the Law, 39 times I believe and yet it is still the LAW! GOP has its head firmly placed in their anus…….before we go on let me say something clever to the Right wing….Obamacare is LAW! Get over it you twats!
The taxes and the fines and lastly that damn pesky MANDATE. But wait what is the mandate? Can you describe it without dashing to the Google machine? (pause here for the clicking of keys in search of mandate on Google).
Ezra Klein has attempted to explain the mandate……..
The individual mandate is a requirement that all individuals who can afford health-care insurance purchase some minimally comprehensive policy. For the purposes of the law, “individuals who can afford health-care insurance” is defined as people for whom the minimum policy will not cost more than 8 percent of their monthly income, and who make more than the poverty line. So if coverage would cost more than 8 percent of your monthly income, or you’re making very little, you’re not on the hook to buy insurance (and, because of other provisions in the law, you’re getting subsidies that make insurance virtually costless anyway).
The theory behind the mandate is simple: It’s there to protect against an insurance death spiral. Now that insurers can’t discriminate based on preexisting conditions, it would be entirely possible for people to forgo insurance until, well, they develop a medical condition. In that world, the bulk of the people buying insurance on the exchanges are sick, and that makes the average premiums terrifically expensive. The mandate is there to bring healthy people into the pool, which keeps average costs down and also ensures that people aren’t riding free on the system by letting society pay when they get hit by a bus.
The irony of the mandate is that it’s been presented as a terribly onerous tax on decent, hardworking people who don’t want to purchase insurance. In reality, it’s the best deal in the bill: A cynical consumer would be smart to pay the modest penalty rather than pay thousands of dollars a year for insurance. In the current system, that’s a bad idea because insurers won’t let them buy insurance if they get sick later. In the reformed system, there’s no consequence for that behavior. You could pay the penalty for five years and then buy insurance the day you felt a lump.
The Right is fighting the law and in particular the mandate as a TAX….and we know how Americans have been brainwashed into a “no taxation” mode……now we can debate the legitimacy of the argument that it is a tax but it will always depend on your political ideology……..I want to believe that the consumer is smarter than the GOP gives them credit………(I say that and I live in a state where I question the mental capacity of 75% of the voters….so I could be mistaken)……..
Actually the law is too weak….more so than too punitive to the taxpayer……personally, it does not go far enough…..but I can live with it….for now….
Now you have an idea what the mandate is……there is so much more to the law but the mandate seems to be what most are focusing on….at least for this week……
what is the mandate?
Easy, that is the concession the democrats gave to the insurance companies. You see, the insurance companies know that if you want to cover more people, especially those with preexisting conditions, it will cost more to do that. So the democrats came up with a plan to guarantee more customers for their insurance friends, mandate everyone buy insurance. Contrary to popular opinion, the Democrats are as much (if not more) bought and paid for by large insurance companies and corporations than the GOP.
in particular the mandate as a TAX
You do know that the White House administration and Democrat leadership argued to the SCOTUS that the mandate was a tax? Of course since the President promised that he would not support any tax increase he would be in a sticky situation for supporting the mandate tax if the public cared about the truth.
Anything can be called tax when one is demonizing it……if people want to blame anyone try the GOP and Romney…it is their idea……somehow it was a god send when it was their idea. I am not trying to defend it I think it is a suck ass program….but at least someone did something because bitch about it….
I want to believe that the consumer is smarter than the GOP gives them credit
I want to believe this too.
But I don’t.
The average consumer is an idiot.
This is why the Republicans keep winning. Because they understand this – they market to this lower common denominator. Bumper stickers work because the “average” voter is a mouth breathing moron who just accepts what he’s told without any critical reasoning and rejects outright the things which require him to think too hard. Liberals seems committed to persisting in a fantasy land where voters are intelligent and willing to take the time to learn and understand nuanced objective reality.
Your (correct) interpretation of the mandate is great and makes perfect sense, but it’s three paragraphs long and has all kinds of big words and nuance to it. Joe Average fell asleep by line three or wandered off looking at shiny objects or pick lint from his belly button.
The Republican version works much better on Joe Average: It’s a new tax, m’kay! Taxes are bad, m’kay!
Sadly, I must agree……I mean they hate it and most of it has not gone into effect….they hate it because they are told to hate it….idiots is a polite term…..
If you’ve got a strong stomach, I suggest you take some time and hang out at another blog I participate in. (I came here following a comment you posted on FLP’s post and got there from a comment he posted at the other blog.). Its a right wing lunatic asylum, frankly. Far, far, far right wing. And we’re critically shot on liberals.
The thing is, as a general rule, they’ll debate anything on a logical and rational and fact-based approach – and do so politely and in good humor. Sure, they’re all wrong about everything, and sure no one ever convinces anyone of anything. And sure, it’s an awful lot like banging your head against a wall for hours on end. But it’s great to be able to get a more intelligent and informed perspective on “the other side.” Feel free to stop over – we’re having open mic day(s) today.
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@Mathius: The President’s attorney told us it was a tax. Didn’t know he was a Republican.
Of course it’s a tax.
Anyone who says otherwise is a fool or a liar.
That doesn’t make it bad, however.
Just making sure. Yours, and lobotero’s, comments seam to imply that the Republicans were lying about it being a tax.
As for it being a bad tax, history will define it in about 20 years. I believe the numbers prove it will be a bad tax that we will never recover from, but I could be wrong.
FL, all I am saying is that the words chosen are to make a point in the debate….Medicare part B, no one talks about is a basic mandate…….Dems will do the same…..we will see after the entire law goes into effect…until then we are both speculating…..
Just making sure. Yours, and lobotero’s, comments seam to imply that the Republicans were lying about it being a tax.
I can’t speak for him, but sorry if I seemed to imply that. No, of course it’s a tax.
The whole friggin’ idea is to force healthy (read: young) people into the pool to offset expenses for the unhealthy (read: elderly). It’s not tax-to-raise-revenue, but a tax-to-encourage-a-behavior. Think of it like a reverse sin-tax: “you’re taxed if you don’t.”
As for it being a bad tax, history will define it in about 20 years. I believe the numbers prove it will be a bad tax that we will never recover from, but I could be wrong.
We’ll see. Write yourself a reminder and we’ll revisit this issue on July 29, 2033.
The whole friggin’ idea is to force healthy (read: young) people into the pool to offset expenses for the unhealthy (read: elderly).
What a wonderful country we live in. We penalize someone for being healthy. And not all healthy people are young, I haven’t been to a hospital in over 20 years, with exception of my children’s birth.
but a tax-to-encourage-a-behavior
A behavior to fund large insurance companies CEO paychecks. Good to see that the Democrats are sticking up for the 1%.