Daily Agitator
Yes…I am still ranting about the “Loss of Freedoms” thing!
With the protests today we see signs all over the place stating that our freedoms need to be save from the government……does not matter which issue is at hand….it will somehow destroy our freedoms…..
It has yelled for decades that somehow one party of the other and their agenda will kill our freedoms in the US…..my first question when someone says this to me is, “which freedoms are in jeopardy?”
Now a days their first reply is that of “Obamacare”……and again I ask which freedom will the passing of a health reform bill eliminate? And almost predictably, they say that it will destroy their existing health plan….my next questions is, “How will the bill accomplish such a feat?” Somewhere about her is when the person usually mentions “socialism” and my question then is “Can you explain this?” Next will come the trash talk about liberals…..here is where I ask them again, “which freedoms are you in the process of losing”? Just as predictable as the sun coming up…they tell me that I just do not understand…..and here is where I just have to say, “you know you right…I do not understand….I do not understand how they can be so vocal and hateful and have NO idea why……Here I usually get called a wealth of names and other insults……I smile and thank them for their time and go to the next angry person….and then the whole process begins again…..
The word “freedom” is subjective and in so is open to a wealth of definitions….freedom is just another word to us to rev up hysteria, anger, fear and emotions….which as we know are extremely useful political tools when dealing with the public……..where were these loud mouths when freedoms were actually lost when the Patriot Act was passed?
Yes, I understand what you’re saying and you’re obviously right at least on an objective level.
The snag there is that, as you say, the whole question of freedom IS subjective and I think that’s the point for most people, isn’t it? Are you absolutley CERTAIN that you are not ignoring that fact for the purpose of argument?
If you want REAL freedom then I guess you have to go lose yourself somewhere in a rainforest and learn to live using nothing more than homemade weapons and artifacts contructed from natural materials you find locally. You may not achieve great age doing that…
However, the truth is that freedom IS subjective as well as being central to human wellbeing and how free people FEEL is often what’s understandably vitally important to many if not all. Anyone threatens that at their peril!
ANY interference by ANY authority is a restriction on individual freedom, as is surveillance, smoking bans, gun restrictions, taxes, and the endless general form filling for the benefit of some bureaucrat no normal person wants to employ, let alone pay for!
Nevertheless, most of us recognise that SOME of that is a necessary and even essential part of civilised society, but ANY non-essential intrusion by government where we as individuals feel they have no right to be, is the most annoying, insidious, objectionable and oppressive restriction on our freedom of which most of us are aware.
I DON’T agree with the Libertarian ideas of “absolutely minimal government at any price”, but I DO support the principle for all governments of “Get on with your job you’re paid to do (by ME), do it at least to the best of your limited ability and in what I see as MY interests, don’t employ useless minions on my behalf because I don’t want them and above all get off my f*cking BACK!”
A good government is like what used once to be thought of as a good child – one that is seen and NOT heard!
And THAT is what these people fear and quite rightly so in my opinion!
While I agree with you in principle…these people are using the subjective to rail up emotional responses….like when a politician says “what the American people want”…it is pure bullshit….what is meant is what they want….that aside…your points are good and very valid…but these guys are not working from the same position as you…..that is why I keep asking what freedoms am I losing?
Your opinion is from a logical and well informed…these guys are targeting low information voters that rely on emotional reflexes….I mean there is an anti-health care ad that uses Paul Revere and his ride to try and change the bill……they say that as Paul rode to protect American freedoms so they are doing the same….my question is…..what freedom was Paul preserving…the freedom to start a war? In believe it was 1776 that the DoI was finalized and his ride was in 1775……
Oh, I understand you perfectly (I think) and I get the point you’re making and it’s undoubtedly right, but that’s part of MY point too…
We ourselves probably can’t do much to counter any of this because, whether we’re right or wrong, we don’t have any great access to the media where the power of publicity rests, but what we CAN do is to at least tell it like it is – as we see it.
YES, the GOP (or whoever) is highjacking this emotive sentiment and using it inappropriately and YES it is being quite cinically used to create anger amongst an often ill-informed public. But that’s just what such people do and I don’t see anything surprising about it. It’s not nice, but it’s always been so and probably always will be.
What I’m saying here is that, in all probability, the people who are getting angry, if they were logical about it, don’t (or at least didn’t until they were stirred up) have any great objection to the reality of healthcare. What they DO (quite rightly in my opinion) care very much about is ANY increase in government size, power, influence, interference and bureaucracy and THAT almost subconscious fear is what is being manipulated.
That fear is (I think) very reasonable and valid and the healthcare thing WILL almost undoubtedly increase government size, bureaucracy and, ultimately, power. If government was NOT clearly self seeking, power hungry, interfering and generally hell bent on controlling the minutiae of individuals’ lives, then I doubt these tactics would work.
As an outsider, I see a lot of Obama’s ideas as being good – good for the country and good for ordinary citizens – but he is plainly quite prepared to accept the “big government” that goes with an agenda such as he envisages – THAT is where he and I part company and THAT is where he is vulnerable to this sort of attack.
The truth probably is that many of these people who are all fired up and angry are at heart quite decent people who, like me, absolutely loathe government and all it stands for and are only happy to accept the minimum government required to run the country in an unOBtrusive and unINtrusive manner.
Their superficial fears may be unfounded, but their UNDERLYING fears are very, very real and entirely valid. We may not always be in an apparent majority, but there are one hell of a lot of people like me who are SO SICK of government treating us all like children and poking its nose into our private lives that we would happily put ourselves at risk to prevent its spread – if that’s what it takes!
Unless that attitude is understood and addressed, thee will always be a block of people who are easy targets for (unsurprisingly) unscrupulous politicians.
CRap! That is a great comment! And as usual you are spot on…..I am one of those a/holes that questions everything that politicians tell me…I want proof of what they are saying and I want specifics….this is why I have brain worms….LOL
Watch for a post coming soon, “Your Insecurity Is Showing” it will explain why the anger and insecurity….at least I try….and as always I will be grateful for your input…..
I look forward to it… 🙂
I have to agree with you assessment in regards with the GOP but that also applies to the democrats as well. Many of the same claims being made by conservatives now were being made by liberals. In short, it is really just a sound bite that attempts to paint the opposition in the most negative of lights.
However, there usually is some truth behind the rhetoric. For the conservatives, it is government taking on more power. The health reform law can become a stepping stone towards a possible future of rationing by the government. Taxes can and have been used to control people’s behaviors. On the other side, some liberals do not like the general trend of the government handing more and more power to corporations as the conservatives have been doing.
The whole freedom thing is like walking on eggshells. Too much, you have anarchy. Too little, you have 1984 or riots.
I could hardly agree more with you – except in one small area. I think that it’s hardly like walking on eggshells – I think the path between too little freedom and anarchy is as deep and wide as the Grand Canyon and maybe wider. On that score, these days, I think our governments are right on the line of too little and about to cross it and in many instances have maybe long ago crossed it.
Very little government is really necessary to stop anarchy, just common sense and decency amongst people. Given a broad umbrella of basic law and order, the more you take responsibility away from people and protect them from the consequences of their own actions, the more they become irresponsible and less decent – it’s pure human nature and logic – two things all current governments seem to lack.
What I had in mind with that statement was that achieving and keeping the perfect mixture is like walking on egg shells. One false step, the balance is broken. This is what I had in mind, what I wrote did not convey that.
While most people have common sense and decency, there is always going to be bad apples; that is simple human nature. For that reason, there is going to be a need for a government (of some form) that at minimum takes out the trash so to speak. Unfortunately, government has a bad habit of attracting these bad apples which is one of the reasons that the current governments are the way they are.
Another way are busybodies who think that they have a mandate, from God or a sense of fairness perhaps, to dictate how a person is supposed to live. I think it is interesting (in the US) how some of these same people are screaming about the loss of freedom.
Yeah. I’d say that’s about spot on. In fact, I’ll raise you one more – governments not only have a tendency to attract bad apples – they frequently have (to use your analogy) a real desire to create as much “trash” as possible to give themselves something to do and crow about. In truth it’s that very old chestnut of creating a problem or a threat so they can apprear to solve it or protect people from it!
Good exchange guys……keep up the good work…..
They indeed do that. However, I put that in the category of SNAFU or bad apples just being rotten.
Typical but some of these guys were regional directors….I would expect better….but then I expect better from many people and have been disappointed….
The thing is – assuming we have that perennial political problem, a bad season, where the hell are we going to find any good apples? I haven’t seen any for a heck of a long time!
A great point….maybe we are looking under the wrong rocks…..