Daily Agitator
That would be what we call “entitlements” some see them as the government giving away the treasury to those who do nothing more than sponge off the government. Entitlements like unemployment, welfare, Medicare, Social Security, et al……you know those things that are the bitch that is killing the economy and the country….well that is what some would have you believe.
The two biggest “entitlements” are Social Security and Medicare….but I have a problem with the conservative argument against entitlement programs….first, I will agree that some of the programs are give aways….I could argue that these programs are the price the state has to pay for the privilege of ruling over the people…..but that would be yet another post that few will read and even fewer would understand……
Sorry…I digress…..
I am weary of the flap trap of conservs that keep calling SS and Medicare as entitlements….that term denotes something that is given to the people…..and given denotes something for nothing…..which is total bullsh*t!
Social Security and Medicare are NOT entitlements…they are however contributions into a pool for later action….and yes it will go broke in a couple years….not because people are getting stuff free but rather because the pricks in Washington have been robbing the pool blind to fund all sorts of garbage like wars and other such notable programs…in other words…it is NOT the people that are killing the system but rather the assh*les that run our lovely country…the same a/holes that YOU vote for every 2 or 4 or 6 years.
Since these programs were signed into law…the Repubs have been trying to find a way to eliminate them…they could not vote them out of existence so the siphoned funds away from them until they were insolvent, which will make it easier to find ways to eliminate them.
Wait a godd*mn minute! The pundits that say we need to make hard choices, that it will hurt and that Americans will have to give up something…..great! , As long as the a/holes making 6 figures do their part in this f*ck job then I say good…but we know that they will NOT be touched by any of these so-called austerity programs…it will fall on the shoulders of people that already live with austerity programs…..I am so tired of the so-called “experts” telling hard working Americans that they are gonna be f*cked….and they do not with a smile…..
So SS and Medicare are NOT some weird little entitlement program….they are obligations the country/government have to the people they play like a cheap flute. Basically, these cowards are looking for ways to NOT honor the obligations they have to the people.
Keep voting for these guys and you will be a party to the scam these politicians are playing on the country….and by all means…keep listening to the wealthy telling you that YOU have to make the sacrifice…they smile all the way to the bank. Think about the guys and gals in Washington that live in exclusive neighborhoods, that should comfort you while you dine on rice and cat food…..
Exactly as I keep saying – yes there are spongers and yes there are cheats, but they mostly occur because of dreadfully inadequate legislation in the first place and stupid, mindless bureaucracy, 60% of which is not requied to get the job done.
The fact is that, for most people things like unemployment pay, healthcare and state pension are backup INSURANCE (albeit in the UK at least – state insurance) that each individual has already PAID THEIR PREMIUMS for.
BUT, as you say, the state is NOT running the system on those lines – in the UK it’s actually called NI – National INSURANCE… THAT is a lie – a scam, plain and simple. It’s a huge PONZI scheme and in any other walk of life it would be ILLEGAL under the government’s OWN laws! By 2060, it is calculated that every TWO working people will be paying for ONE retired person.
Was there NO ONE around with enough brain-cells switched to “active” to foresee this a few decades ago when the scheme started – it’s simple enough mathematical projection…
In the US it was seen as a good thing….but presidents started hitting the fund to pay for war and other such crap….and then they bitch about it being a drag on the country….the UK system is stronger than the US….for they predict by 2020 it will be as you say…2 for 1….but a lot of these gloom and doom predictions are made with existing contributions……they seem to forget that others will be entering the system……so their figures assume there will be NO new people getting jobs…..granted times are tough now but it is a notable stat to consider….
But THAT’S the fallacy – there are likely to actually be even LESS people working and THAT’S why the Ponzi will FAIL!
In the West, lots more people are grudually coning to realise that they don’t WANT to have kids screwing up their lives like previous generations did and a significant proportion of today’s children will grow up unemployable anyway – in both our countries.
The unpallatable truth that most people do NOT want to face is the reality (there’s that word again) that this planet has finite resources and there are just too many damned people here. So couples deciding that it’s bad to have loads of kids that they don’t really want is a very good and worthy, common sense idea that should NOT be discouraged just becasue successive stupid and short-sighted administrations have got their f*cking sums wrong based on a false hypothesis!
You realize that any hint of population control will be met with harsh words…..I will agree with the resources thing and that the population needs to be under control…but we know that it will not happen…….some will voluntarily do it but the masses will resist….an for some lame excuse like they do NOT want the government telling them what to do…..
I don’t personally think that governments should try to tell people how many kids they can have either, BUT human fertility IS dropping fast in the West and many couples are deciding to limit the number of children they have, or deciding not to have them at all…
That though produces a dichotomy – the government needs more and more people to keep paying into the broken system and the planet needs people to do what they are already doing from choice and refrain from reproducing. Hence in the UK at least, couples can often get fertility treatment free on the NHS and we pay “child allowance” instead of saying, “In these days of effective birth control, if you can’t afford ’em, don’t have ’em!”
The human race has gone nuts and no mistake! Why should I have to pay for pig-ignorant people to keep having kids they can’t afford and both I and the planet don’t want?
Not fair! I have been told the pigs are very intelligent…the days of needing multiple kids to work the family farm are gone…how many does it take to work the remote? Do not laugh…but I know of a couple in the military that are getting fertility treatments and when that did not work they got invitro…..all on the public dime……I have a prob with this also…..and to boot the couple are hypochondriacs that use the emergency room as their family doctor…these are thetypes of people we can do without.
Exactly so… and these are the types of people who are not only getting far more than their fair share, but with a limited public purse (rightly so since it’s people like you and me who are doing the paying), they are “stealing” from those that have a genuine need… 👿
My problem with most of these programs is that many people think they are some sort of answer. Many Americans had the notion that SS would cover their retirement. As this was not the case, they had to do two things: Accept a lower standard of living, and beg for support. While they kept their ability to vote, the politicians came begging for theirs and offering more in return. As the benefits got larger, and new programs were added, people became more reliant… hence the entitlement.
The problem is that when people rely on politicians, they end up let down in the end, hence the NEED to get away from these programs.
Nowadays a lot of Americans are already living with a lower standard……my problem with all this is that if I pay on ALL my income then why does not everyone? It is always those with 6 figure salaries that scream the loudest, in most cases.
“if I pay on ALL my income then why does not everyone?” — I’m not sure why you believe you do, and you believe someone with a 6-figure salary does not.
FICA is paid on the first $75,000……unless that has been changed…….I pay on every dime I make because I do not make that much….I pay the Medicare part also……I do not care how much people make or steal or however they get it….as long as they pay the same as me….they are welcome to it..
What is FICA???
That is the part of the payroll taxes that goes to SS….sorry about that
LOUDelf: Sadly, I agree largely with you. Human nature dictates this and, whilst I believe that welfare is vital as a “safety net” for those in dire (temporary) need, I believe that it is not an answer in itself and should be kept to the minimum.
That doesn’t mean that I don’t approve of things like state healthcare, but cost should be kept low and it needs to run side by side with a strong private system that nevertheless feels the need to “compete” and is thus to a great extent “self-regulated”.
You are (also sadly) quite right that we all pay a lot in taxes and accept a lower living standard as a result, but most of us feel utterly let down when WE actually try to get something back! All welfare should in my opinion only be for emergency use by the needy (at minimum cost to the taxpayer) and NOT allowed to become a way of life for many.
But to “reform” social security as a way of lessening the deficit and leave others programs like the wars or the tax code or ….(well this sounds like the subject of another post……) sounds like the working people have to make ALL the compromises while others skate as they ALWAYS do……. I cannot support such reform…..
I work and I don’tlike a great deal about SS – so how does that work?
“FICA is paid on the first $75,000”
I believe the number now is 106k. Questions:
– These people that make 6-figure salaries, are they also in your tax bracket, or do they get hit with an extra 3, 6, or 10 cents per dollar tax on their income?
– Of the 7.65% taken out, 6.2% is SS. This is also capped, so the people who are capped on maximum contribution, are also capped on maximum distribution. Where is the problem here with the 6-figure earners?
LOUDelf…like I said I have NO problem with the amount someone makes….my problem is that if they want to make SS more solvent then why not make everyone pay the same amount on the total of their income…..and I would have NO problem with doing away with the caps on contributions and distributions….and thanx for the update on the total…I figured it had gone up some…..
I also have a problem with the retirement age going up and up…..since the avg American lives for about 79 yrs….why not make the age 80 for retirement and with luck they will not have to pay any…..sorry that was sarcasm that just comes out at times….
Everyone does pay the exact same percentage. With the cap on both distribution and tax, it is perfectly equitable. As a matter of fact, I’d love to see that on income taxes as well.
I guess retirement age has risen because people are living longer and able to work longer. Payouts last for more years if you keep the retirement age the same, and thus increase the burden on the system. Increasing the age is more realistic considering this.
Personally, I think we ditch SS completely. Grandfather in people from a certain date, and have a declining percentage from there until today. People would seek their own retirement plan options knowing they have no government option.
The GOP thinks as you…the problem is that most people cannot afford a personal savings account like others and the SS is the only form of retirement they may have…….
I know this sounds daft, but I agree with both of you – Loudelf in theory, you more in practice…
Surely there is a compromise somewhere…???
I gave you mine…..let everyone pay their FICA on every dime they make….let their contribution and distribution reflect that…..this will be unpopular in some sections especially with brokers…they are chomping at the bit to get a hold of the massive amounts of cash the personal saving accounts would provide……and what if there is yet another meltdown…what will happen to people’s retirement?
FICA, like NI in the UK, is a fake! It’s a fraud! It called INSURANCE and the whole point about insurance is that (generally) you have to pay into it BEFORE you claim on it and the money received is INVESTED to make profit in order to pay shareholders and claims and an insurance company (with PROPER regulation) is obligated to pay out for valid claims!
These government schemes are a PONZI and that’s illegal. The original idea was that the less wealthy could have a government run insurance which would be more affordable and cheaper to administrate (because there are no shareholders to pay). That is utter crap! Government run enterprises are usually MORE EXPENSIVE because they not only have to abide by legislation but also keep on changing that as a way to make the numbers add up until it finally collapses and the lie becomes apparent.
As a COMPETITOR to private schemes it would force those private companies to offer a MUCH better deal to it’s clients and stop CHEATING on their obligation to pay out, because a well run and efficient scheme would be a magnet to rich and poor alike – but it would HAVE to be run EFFICIENTLY – not something most governments are capable of!
Our NI is called Medicare and it is a separate thing from SS and it only pays about 80% of the total bill that is why insurance companies have made billions selling make up plans……the SS is the sole retirement that many, many Americans have…..and the way things are now…it will be more added to the rolls….thanx to economic situations……and the personal savings accounts will do nothing but make brokers richer and the people more sunject to market forces that they cannot control….
Not quite – UK NI includes pension, welfare (SS) and medical facilities that, though pretty crap, are (I think) a lot better than your medicare sounds.
Like your system, insurance companies can make up for the inadequacies of the “free” system, but then why not? There is no way for ordinary people to afford the government system if it was all singing, all dancing and covered in bells and whistles.
That, though is the point – the government system isn’t bad, but it’s a hell of a lot worse than it COULD be if it was run efficiently…
I did not know that the NI was all that…..that is cool….and apparently it is being run much better than the US system….efficiency is not something that computes in politics…..
“most people cannot afford a personal savings account” — A person making $40k/year is contributing $2480/ year into SS. If this is dropped, people can contribute this much into a 401k, CD, or other investment vehicle. I’d say most people can afford a savings account, especially if they didn’t have to pay into some bloated and inefficient system.
What SS does is take out a chunk of change for people with terrible yield. As Quin says, it’s a Ponzi scheme where the next generation pays for the current one, instead of people with personal accounts who pays for themselves.
Our government needs to focus on regulations, enforcement, and be a last-resort safety net… not a service provider that turns everything it touches into crap.
LOUDelf……most people contribute because they have to….any person making $40,000 a year woulkd probably spend it on something like education for the kid or food or other such necessities…..I just do not think it would help.
Is the system busted….for sure….but that is because the government cannot keep its willie out of it……I think it would be in better shape if the government had not used it for wars and other such ‘necessities’………I will agree that Dems and Repubs alike have turned the system into a pile of steaming bovine fecal matter….
If you know no one else is going to help you in retirement, then you too HAVE to contribute. Cutting the SS tax would help someone out by allowing them to have the cash to either pay down debt, or even better, save $2k+ per year on their own.
But you touch on the important point here. The government is not capable of doing things right. It uses propaganda to convince the populace that the people are stupid, and the government is the answer, yet we see on a consistent and systemic basis it is not. For this reason alone (not to mention others), I decided a long time ago that people are in a much better position to manage their lives than the government, and that government should regulate, enforce, serve as a safety net, but most of all, get out of our way. I too agree, our two main parties have turned our federal government (and most of the states’) government into polished turds.
I will agree with you that people are capable of running their own lives……at least I would hope so……but (there always seems to be a ‘but’) after years of watching the people make absolutely horrible decisions I fear for them……personally, I would prefer government out of my life and my decisions….but looking at the whole….I am afraid it is here to stay……because no one has a better way….if they do they are keeping it a secret….
BTW LOUDelf…I do appreciate a good exchange of ideas and always look forward to comments…..thanx for your continuous visits….
Yes I agree entirely – social insurance including pension savings COULD be made mandatory just like being insured to drive a car. Really poor people could have the government help with the contributions to that – and THAT is about as far as I think the government should get involved.
What IS essential, though, is that the insurance companies should be forced to compete nationwide (or even internationally) so that the consumer would get a much better deal (as is generally the case in the UK).
Insurance companies are not bound by any regulations to speak of……look at the scam they have pulled on widows of soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan……
Then they should be… simple
“I am afraid it is here to stay” — It doesn’t have to be. We’ve watched the government step more and more into our lives. Now, while I find many Tea Partiers to be a bunch of yahoos, I do find their aim to be a good one: downsize the government, and get them less involved in our lives. That movement has a ton of popularity and following. I think with movements like that, we can definitely push government back out.
People DO have a better way, and is proven regularly. The big misconception by the government is that people are stupid, and this is often perceived by their voting habits, but people have become so numbed to the constant corruption, ineptitude and arrogance of government. Frankly, I believe that’s planned as a way to then justify the aim of subjugating the populace under the political class. That frightens me. Sounds like a conspiracy theory, but I think our recent history has proven it to be fact.
Always good jabbing with you. It’s nice to see you inevitably understand I’m always right (sarcasm).
While I agree with the whole downsize thing and the staying out of people’s lives…,I do not think that it is possible…no matter how much the people bitch…….for instance the Constitution……the TP finds things that support their position while ignoring other parts that do not….if you believe the Constitution is perfect then it should be viewed that way…all parts.
Once again we agree on the domination of the new “aristocracy”….politicians. I believe that individually people are smart and caring….collectively they can become irrational. I see the new crop of politicians across the country and I am also afraid for our future.
I love sarcasm…..and I am NEVER wrong….have been mistaken a couple of times….LOL It is 0357 hrs…Hell I would agree with anything before coffee….LOL