Syria is a total meltdown….a civil war, for lack of a better term….many neo-cons, most notably Sen. McCain, have been yelling for the US to do more and more……..NO one in Syria wants our direct involvement t but that Never stops a good hawk from demanding it anyway…….and now it looks like they have gotten their way…in a round about way……
(Newser) – The US military now has a presence in Jordan, less than 35 miles from the Syrian border, that it secretly set up this summer; more than 150 specialists are stationed there. Right now, the mission is focused on helping Jordan deal with tens of thousands of Syrian refugees, but it’s also meant as preparation in case the Syrian conflict mushrooms into a regional one—or Syria loses control of its chemical weapons. As fighting along Syria’s borders with Turkey, Lebanon, and Iraq intensifies, the US is concerned about the conflict spreading—and Jordan, a key American ally, has already been touched by some fighting along its border with Syria.
Officials say the US may create a “buffer zone” between the two countries, but that’s only a contingency plan at this point. Still, the Jordan outpost gives the US greater leeway to get more involved with Syria should the Obama administration decide to intervene—it’s currently the closest US presence to Syria, the New York Times reports. Meanwhile, Turkey warned today that its military will use greater force if Syrian shells continue to cross the border, Reuters reports. Fighting between Syrian troops and the opposition intensified today, a day after NATO said it was prepared to defend Turkey if need be.
Concern over WMDs….does that sound familiar?
These are actions that could be viewed in a way that might suggest a more expanded roll for US forces……Setting up a “Buffer Zone” sounds suspiciously like the DMZs from Korea and Vietnam and we know how well those worked in keeping the US out more direct military involvement, don’t we?
I find that to be an incredible statement. Are you suggesting that those being slaughtered by the Syrian government would decline U.S. military assistance? Unless Syrians are strangely dissimilar from other human beings, I’d say our help would be accepted quick, fast, and in a hurry.
I don’t necessarily favor U.S. involvement in foreign affairs, but I certainly respect Sen. McCain’s position. As a POW, I bet Sen. McCain knows more about the horrors of war than any commenting on this blog. He deserves a measure of respect. Far be it from me, however, to ask a liberal to respect a war hero like John McCain…
Sorry that this does not fit with the scenario that people want…I have friends in Syria and those people do not want US direct involvement…I do not care what McCain and his buds are saying…….being a veteran does not automatically give hims a free ride…….he is speaking from political conviction only and yes as a veteran he has seen war but so have many others and to imply that their opinions on the subject are moot is in itself a disrespect.
The point of this post was to point out that this could lead to the same type of involvement that the US had in Korea and Vietnam and even an Iraq scenario with the WMDs. We are not really helping the Syrian people….this is helping Jordan.
Lobotero,
Of the 22 million people in Syria, how many are your friends? Do you know how ridiculous your certainty sounds? You have no idea what the majority of Syrian people want.
To be truthful, I don’t know either. I do, however, think that the rebels being slaughtered by al-Assad’s forces would gladly accept our help.
Since I disagree with McCain as well, I don’t think anything less than sycophantic agreement is disrespectful. My problem is not with your disagreement, but your profound disrespect.
Senator McCain is not a neocon, a warmonger, or someone who cavalierly beats the drums of war without regard for the lives that will be lost. The mode by which you express your disagreement is malicious and scandalously asinine, if you don’t mind my saying so.
I understand the point of the post. But I’m curious about one thing: Were you among the liberals calling for Clinton to stop the Rwandan Genocide? Those liberals demanding Bush intervene in the Darfur Conflict? You tell me what genocide the U.S. should involve itself in.
Furthermore, given that World War I, World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War – every major American war for the last century – can trace their beginnings back to a Democrat president involving the United States in exterior conflicts, I’d say this harassment of Sen. McCain and his “hawkish” beliefs is hilarious.
Want an explanation?
Wilson entered us into World War I without need, and his sickening endorsement of the Treaty of Versailles is in part to blame for World War II. His allowing of France and Britain to carve up the Middle East after World War I is in part to blame for the ongoing conflicts there now.
Under Roosevelt, the U.S. was running Naval operations during World War II long before Japan attacked us. World War II didn’t have to become an American war.
After World War II, President Truman dropped the ball and allowed Stalin to create a sphere of influence in North Korea. Which wasn’t necessarily a bad thing – until we decided to use our might to protect the South. Stupid all the way around.
Truman is also partly responsible for the Vietnam War. That was a French problem that Truman should have kept the United States out of. He never should have sent aide or advisers.
Obviously, those are just brief explanations of why Democrats are responsible for every major American war in the last century. I could go deeper into it if you want. I read – a lot.
First, respect is earned…..he was not the only POW….his stances on the use of military force and his stance on vets…it is good that you have so much faith in McCain….would you have the same respect if he were a Dem
Dems have gotten us into more wars…..Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Grenada, 2 Iraqs….we can play this back and forth and our hostory listens…and you can defend McCain all you like….
The fact is you seem to zero in on a word that somehow gets your cockles up…..the post, I reiterate is about the possibility that the US will been drawn into the middle of the Syria civil war….McCain and this little history lesson is nothing to do with the post…
“I do, however, think that the rebels being slaughtered by al-Assad’s forces would gladly accept our help.”
Which “rebels” would those be Terrance? The ones that have always hated the U.S. and the Assad regime or just the ones who say they like us? How well does anyone really know the leadership of the “the rebels”? If those you think need our help gain control of the government and eventually instate Islamic law that forbids equality to women, have we really helped “freedom fighters” that you can identify with?
Assad is a brute in much the same way Saddam was but as we learned there you just can’t juts go in and remove the brute and expect a stable and friendly government to evolve from it all. There is and always will be a serious cultural divide between the people of the mid-east and Westerners.
McCain is not necessarily a military hawk but he has a propensity to go along with the corporate interests within the military-industrial complex. Sadly this one time war hero has succumbed to the avarice that any politician his age and time in Congress usually does while trying to justify it all as a “national security” measure.
The Obama administration is doing everything feasible that it can do with the unknowns in this ongoing conflict within the middle east short of sending troops in. The last thing we want to do is to involve ourselves in yet another war we cannot win and will make us look like the aggressors many Muslims now see us as vis a vis Iraq and Afghanistan. Where are the Saudis in all of this? Surely they should be much more involved than the U.S.
Lobotero,
You say things without thinking them through all the time. For crying out loud, McCain spent five-years in a Vietnamese hellhole because he was discharging his duties for his county. That should earn him a measure of respect. What were you doing at this time? Smoking dope and writing anti-war poems?
I’m aware that Democrats have gotten us into more wars.
I’m zeroing in on the disrespect for Senator McCain who, whether you accept it or not, deserves not only your respect but your gratitude as well.
How you lefties can look at yourselves in the mirror after bashing our veterans is behind me.
*beyond me
That is the point…it is beyond you…..
Once again..McCain should be admired for dealing with the agony of his interment…..to answer your condescending comment…I was up to my ass in mud in the Mekong Delta serving as recon for the 9th Infantry Division….is that good enough for you! So please if you must educate people pick on one of the Cheetos eating chatter heads….this Leftie was doing more than anyone of the bobbleheads on the right today…..they talk about patriotism and freedom but spend their time in comfort while real Americans are fighting wars for them say they can say whatever they want…..
I will give McCain a thumbs up because to my knowledge he has never used his military horror story as a political prop….
Yes, yes, Lob. Only Democrats join the military. That’s probably why Republicans win the military vote nearly every single presidential election…
Lame argument…very lame
It nicely refuted your silly suggestion that Republicans sit around while “real Americans” do the fighting.
The problem with that is I NEVER said Dems were the only ones doing the fighting……
You literally said that right-wingers sit around while “real Americans” do the fighting. In what other way should I have taken that remark? It seemed like you were suggesting, as I have heard many liberals suggest, that only Democrats go off to war.
I merely responded by factually stating that the Republican presidential candidate almost always wins the military vote. So, your “real Americans” are about 70% Republican.
I did not “literally” say anything of the sort….I used the term they which was referring to the military who is protecting all of us……why are you so worried about the vote……once again you do what you always do….try to justify…..a man being shot at does not give two shakes in Hell who voted for who……
You read into what I write anyway you choose…even when you are wrong….real Americans mean people who are doing the fighting for the rest of us….and that includes Repubs…unless you think you are too good to do that for the country…
Larry,
I didn’t figure it would be long before you came galloping in on your pegasus to offer more of your progressive wisdom.
Save your straw men for fools, Larry. You’ll have to do much better than that with me. I didn’t say I agreed with McCain. I simply responded to Lobotero’s naivete.
Syrian’s will find their fellow countrymen laying on the ground, brains splattered into little bloody pieces, and they’ll accept our help real fast if we offer. If kissing up to the American Devil is for “Allah’s” benefit, they’ll do it. Of course they’ll likely turn on us when al-Assad is overthrown, just like bin Laden and Saadam did after we armed them in the 80’s. But that possibility doesn’t negate the human instinct to adapt and overcome.
I don’t understand why you are so fond of the straw man, Larry. I am an isolationist, for crying out loud. I merely responded, as I said, to Lobotero’s off-the-wall remark and harassment of John McCain. You needn’t lecture me on the dangers of involving ourselves in other nation’s affairs.
Of course. How did I know this was coming…You’re seriously accusing a man who spent five-years in a POW camp of sending our men and women off to war for —- money? I have never known John McCain to be a man without integrity.
And of course you have proof of that…
I don’t care what the Obama administration is or isn’t doing as far as Syria is concerned. I honestly don’t give a damn about the rebels’ cause. I’m merely defending John McCain and suggesting that Lobotero isn’t the Oracle of the Middle East.
“You literally said that right-wingers sit around while “real Americans” do the fighting. In what other way should I have taken that remark?”
Pardon me but let me interject this from your conversation with lobotero. I think one can be “right wing” or “left wing” and still be patriotic and concerned about the general welfare of this country. But I think these extreme labels can also be associated with corporate special interests that share little concern about the the general welfare of the American people and more about the profits they can acquire through war and contaminating our ecosystem. Which “right winger” are you Terrance?
“I didn’t figure it would be long before you came galloping in on your pegasus to offer more of your progressive wisdom.”
Wow! Galloping in on my pegasus? Really? Been reading some of the hyperbolic meanderings of Ayn Rand’s have you?
“Save your straw men for fools, Larry.”
What exactly are you calling a straw man Terrance? I seem to recall your denunciation of our support for Egyptians who engaged in the Arab Spring and how that effort resulted in a takeover by the Muslim Brotherhood. Will your criticism come as equally quick after the Syrian “rebels” also turn on the American saviors. Your flair for the dramatic here talking about brains being “splattered into little bloody pieces” is full of an emotion that doesn’t rationalize a decision that may be more costly for American brains and body parts if we over react to this situation. What? Now you want to save every mid-easterners life who wants to over throw their despotic rulers?
Lives will be lost in such struggles Terrance but extrapolating guilt on our government who is taking sensible precautions is hardly something I would expect to see from you if Obama were not there to attack. You’re on the wrong side of history if you think the American people are willing to invest their young men and women and treasure in yet another volatile crisis in the mid-east.
” I have never known John McCain to be a man without integrity.”
Though that may have been true in his early career there is much to dispute this notion today. Here is a list of the many flip flops McCain has made. Though there may be caveats to some of them they hardly represent a case for a man of integrity. Nor would a man of integrity have an extramarital relationship with a woman who he would later divorce his wife for and who also had questionable investments that could link her to some war profiteering. You might of course think this is a stretch but it does kind of support the perception of honor an integrity lost.
“And of course you have proof of that…”
Oh not the kind of proof you’re demanding or expecting Terrance but enough to raise suspicions and put your notion of integrity at arms length. Compared to many on the corporate dole in Congress, McCain is no where near the top. But his honor days as a vet and POW have been tarnished over time.
Even the great ones fall much like King David did in his later years when he became senile and had Bathsheba’s husband killed so he could have his way with her. King David was a great warrior and man of God but that didn’t protect him from falling to human weaknesses. Be careful who you put up there on a pedestal my friend. They’re likely to disappoint you
So do I.
Corporate special interests? Solyndra. Special Interest in general? Big Union. Which “left winger” are you, Larry?
We can play this game forever.
I’ve read one book by Ayn Rand about 10 years ago – and I had to flog myself to get through it. I’m generally regarded as a half-way decent writer when I want to be. I don’t need Ayn Rand to utilize hyperbole.
You styled your previous response as though I agreed with John McCain. My issue with Lobotero wasn’t his disagreement with American intervention, but his disrespect of a good man. I also took some issue with his pretention. He assumes an impossible knowledge of a nation to which he is completely foreign.
Yes.
Straw man. I have said repeatedly now that I do not support American intervention in Syria.
I made that statement to amplify my belief that Syrian’s would in fact want our help. It was a response to Lobotero’s assertion that “NO one in Syria wants our direct involvement.” I made an observation, Larry. It was not an argument in favor of American intervention.
Are you on drugs? Straw man – yet again.
Let me be very clear about something, since you seem to be having such trouble understanding. Ready?
I DO NOT SUPPORT AMERICAN INTERVENTION IN SYRIA! MY RESPONSE IN THIS THREAD WAS TO LOBOTERO’S ASSERTION THAT THE SYRIAN PEOPLE WOULD NOT WANT OUT HELP. IT WAS A CRITIQUE OF HIS ARGUMENT, NOT ITSELF AN ARGUMENT!
Are we clear?