I have been reading blogs….listening to news reports…..and reading lots of news…..all in an attempt to get an handle on this Snowden dude…..
We all have our opinions about this Snowden dude….the guy who worked for NSA for 2 weeks and took abounch of info that he has released through a journalist enabler……I have heard him called a patriot because he exposed the NSA and their dastardly techniques of checking for terrorists…..and then there is those that think him some sort of traitor for his antics……but that is for the individual to decide which Snowden is….the patriot or the traitor.
There are a few things to consider….one Ellsberg released the Pentagon papers and stood up for what he believed…Snowden ran away to hide and then released his so-called information. Manning, you know the Army PFC that got and then released a bunch of Pentagon stuff on line….he stood and faced the consequences….Snowden ran to China another bastion of democracy and freedom (sarcasm, in case it was missed)…….
Then there is the report that Snowden had 4 laptops with information and he allowed either China or Russia to check out the hard drives……that is right….RUSSIA…..(another bastion of freedom and democracy…sarcasm once again……..). That does not sound like someone that has the concern of American’s public best interests…..does it to you?
The story says that Snowden has gone from China to Russia then on to Cuba and finally to Ecuador……his final destination because of the extradition that is non-existent……any time a person allows state secrets fall into the hands of foreign entities then that person is a traitor! No matter how one tries to justify the actions….a traitor is a traitor!
Sorry….none of that sounds like a patriot…..but it does sound like a traitor on the run looking for a safe haven!
No amount of justification can turn this act into something patriotic.
If Manning is a traitor….then Snowden is worse….why? He was a coward and fled…..he could not be bothered with standing on principle….my guess is that he, Snowden, is looking for the most lucrative spot to settle down……
Let us hear from the public….is this guy a….patriot or traitor?
Citizen journalist?
Good cover…..
🙂
Neither.
How many times did we hear during the primaries and presidential campaign that we needed to get tough with China on cyber spying.
China knows we are spying on them and we know they are spying on us. Because of Snowden, now most American’s know it, and THAT is why the goverment is so pissed.
Snowden didn’t steal information to give to another county or profit from the highest bidder. He didn’t expose any individuals or endanger any American spies. He exposed to the mindless masses of our society who didn’t think this wouldn’t happen or couldn’t happen.
As for fleeing the country I have no qualms with it. The goverment loves making examples of people.
From the reports I have seen…he allowed China reps to look through his 4 laptops…..that is espionage…the story is still not told as to why his person ran like the coward he most likely is……if it was for some noble principle he would stand his ground….but instead he hides….sounds like a traitor to me.
I happen to believe he’s a hero. I understand your points, but here’s the rub:
He’s fighting traitors. Every person who set up the NSA system declared an oath to support the US Constitution, which is clearly undermined with this spying.
Should he have stayed in the US? Possibly, but because the NSA is super-secretive, he may have had reason to fear for his life. Fleeing may extend his life, possibly save it.
There is nothing that he has that the other countries don’t already know or suspect, and the government is playing a terrible game now of demonizing a person who they should offer to protect. The best solution is to say “come home, let us analyze what you have, and you will be given immunity as a whistleblower”. Because, by now, we can see the crimes which the government has committed very clearly.
As Thomas Paine wrote: “An Avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.”
Sadly, too many people are being distracted (as the government wants) by their attacks on Snowden. the story isn’t Snowden. It’s spying.
Hi medroogs and thanx for the visit…..Until we know what is on the hard drives of the 4 laptops I still contend he is a traitor….yes what the NSA is suppose to have done is BS….but there is more to it than that or he would not have 4 pcs…..so is Manning a hero also?
To me, it doesn’t matter what’s on the hard drives. The problem IS NOT Snowden. It’s spying on US citizens. The government will, undoubtedly (because they already have) lie to us about what is on those drives. They will tell us ridiculous things to scare us, when the reality is (I’m 100% certain) any foreign nation will get zippo. In fact, my guess is the reason the Chinese let him go is because they got nothing of value from him. Otherwise, it would be in their best interest to keep him.
In Russia, he’s stuck until someone gives him a Visa or approves him for asylum. I doubt Putin wants to have the FSB interview him. He already knows most of the details of this program (or his KGB credentials are for nought), and messing with Snowden directly will only make him look bad because right now Snowden is perceived very positively outside the USA. Putin is aware of this, and aware that Snowden gives him the moral high ground with Obama.
Is Manning a hero? I’m still debating this. Manning clearly released data which put lives at risk. I can’t compare his role with that of Snowden, who did not really put any lives at risk except his own. Frankly, I’m surprised they let Manning live. Keeping him around only allows them to show the US populace “don’t mess with the government”. snowden learned from this…
By the way, it’s entirely possible the 4 PCs are a bit of misdirection. Why not have them? If I was concerned about death, theft, or any other sorts of things, I’d put more stuff on thumb drives and keep the PCs as a prop.
So far, the Guardian has said they have only released items after they’ve cleared it with their Legal department, regarding its level of classified status, as well as whether it is germaine to the story, or if it can potentially put people at risk.
The government has a black eye and is in CYA mode. They are scared rats and will do or say anything at this point. When did the US start to trust politicians? Seriously?
I think this guy is a self serving individual….he would be safer in the US…he is choosing countries that care little about an individual….the point is we do not know what info he was able to make off with…..I think he is being a bit too magnanimous. I guess we will have to wait and see what is what….
We are all self serving. Hong Kong was actually a good first stop, based on its history. I think the problem he has is that there are very few countries he could go to and expect some kind of protection, and is doing the best he can in difficult situations.
I fault our government, not him. Whatever you’re waiting for, you’ll never get. any news about him, from the government, will be lies. They have to protect themselves how. Their best bet? Divert attention and hope people forget. It’s working, clearly. We are a nation of sheep.
I see we will never agree…..so I will say that it is a country of sheep…..elections prove that….we vote for the most worthless of individuals….I am including both parties in my sweeping statement….if Snowden is not a traitor then he is a coward….at least manning faced the consequences of his decision…..
Actually, I agree that we vote for worthless individuals, and I agree that perhaps Snowden is a coward. But being a coward does not make him less a hero. Wanting to save one’s own skin is a natural course of action. Manning, if I recall correctly, was hoping nobody would catch him. He certainly did not out himself as Snowden did. Huge difference. Manning was also put on suicide watch…so it’s hard to know whether he ‘manned up’, or just thought he was smarter than everyone else.
Say what you want about Snowden, but so far he’s outwitted everybody – perhaps even himself.