Closing Thought–08Dec16

There Are No Facts!…….

I have had this conversation a couple of times…usually when I quote facts and then someone disputes their validity….by asking how do you know what are facts?  How do you know that these are truly facts?

It is easy….A Fact is just the a FACT!

For instance it is a FACT that the Golden Gate is a bridge…it is NOT a FACT that it is a taco…..see how that works?  Think that is silly?  NO more so than the slugs that argue against facts.

I revisit this issue because of something that I read…..a supporter of Donald Trump said in an interview….

“Well, I think it’s also an idea of an opinion. And that’s — on one hand I hear half the media saying that these are lies, but on the other half there are many people that go, no, it’s true,” Hughes said. “And so one thing that has been interesting this entire campaign season to watch is that people that say facts are facts, they’re not really facts.”

She went on, “There’s no such thing, unfortunately, anymore of facts. And so Mr. Trump’s tweet amongst a certain crowd, a large — a large part of the population, are truth. When he says that millions of people illegally voted, he has some — in his — amongst him and his supporters, and people believe they have facts to back that up. Those that do not like Mr. Trump, they say that those are lies, and there’s no facts to back it up.”

Source: Trump booster Scottie Nell Hughes gets blasted on NPR after saying ‘there’s no such thing as facts’

People that do not comprehend the concept of a fact are people that will readily believe a lie to influence their nature.

I stand by my assertion that….a Fact Is A Fact!

My day is done…all have a great remainder of the day….


44 thoughts on “Closing Thought–08Dec16

  1. The country needs a refresher on the scientific method 🙂

    Question, Research, Hypothesis, Procedure/Method, Data, Observations, Conclusion
    Lather, rinse, repeat

  2. This is what happens when you raise a couple generations of “precious little snowflakes” who only get trophies for just showing up and encourage people to think their opinion matters. Then you compound the error by letting them loose on the Web-pipes to say whatever they want.

    And voila! There’s enough idiots who think something is true, therefore it must be true.

    1. Dear Sedate Me — You are one hundred percent correct. The truth of the matter (The “Fact” of the matter that it is all summarized in your statement that says, ” ….. There’s enough idiots who think something is true, therefore it must be true….. ” That is the point i have been trying to drive home exactly! It is what the “Idiots” think is true that makes it true for them. But it might not be true for somebody else.

  3. The only reason that saying “The Golden Gate Is A Bridge” is a “Fact” is because the premise is accepted by more people who espouse the premise than it is by those who reject the premise. To the minority of people who do not see the Golden Gate as a bridge then it definitely is not a bridge and their “Fact” becomes the obtuse of the belief about the span held by those for whom it is a bridge is a “Fact.” If more people insisted that the Golden Gate wasn’t a bridge, then the “Fact” would be that it is not. It is all a matter of how people perceive things and perceptions can change over time. Therefore “Facts” can change over time.

    Case in point: It was once widely believed that the “Fact” was that no human being could ever escape the surface of the earth and it’s gravity field and enter Space and travel to other celestial bodies. There was no arguing about it because according to all the “Facts” it was simply impossible. However subsequent events made it possible and the “Fact” became that space travel is indeed practical and attainable.

    A mind that cannot comprehend the ambivalence of the concept of “Facts” has a long way to go in perfecting critical thinking skills.

      1. and that, my friend, is a “Fact” as you see it but somewhat of a challenge for me. I do not have an aversion to “Fact” and that is a “Fact.” What I am saying is that since everyone biases their so-called “Facts” one person’s “Fact” is then another person’s “Fancy” and I cannot understand why that “Fact” should be such an incomprehensible mystery to so many folks. BTW, bridges occupy space and are therefore part and parcel of the space that surrounds them which …. by any reasonable estimation includes every inch of available space in the Cosmos because space is space, apples are apples and oranges are oranges but Facts are not always facts because they change according to bias …. inescapable and ever present bias.

      2. Actually you are the second one to say my comments must be turned off. I don’t find them turned off anywhere.. and I re-checked all the settings. If anyone has a clue what I might be missing please pass it on.

      3. Go to “My Site” and then to “Settings” and then to “Discussion.”

        Under “Discussion” check the following boxes at least. (You can choose sometimes which ones to check.)

        1. Allow people to post comments on new articles.

        2. Comment author must fill out name and e mail.

        Go down to “E-Mail Me Whenever” and check:

        1. Anyone posts a comment
        2. A comment is held for moderation.

        Go down to “Before A Comment Appears” and check —

        2. Comment author must have a previously approved comment.

        This should solve some of the problem for you.

      4. Actually I know the settings thing and I re-checked and all that is set correctly. In fact, I have been getting replies across all my posts, even from Pete. I dunno.

    1. Jesus, man. That comment went into it’s own orbit over the average person’s head. Most folks these days can’t figure out how to use a rotary phone without asking Siri how…even folks who used them every day for half of their lives.

      1. Sorry about that Sedate Me but there are some issues that require a bit of extra nuancing in the explanation of the underlying conceptualizations. This is one of those. The whole argument was premised somewhere in the realm of Philosophical Arts and I am certain that it might get a little complex sometimes. A necessary evil.

      2. Dear Sedate Me — it is one approach. The other approach would be to go onto the forums and speak to a happiness engineer who would be glad to walk one through the needed steps.

  4. There are facts that are facts: it can be clearly demonstrated. There are “facts” that aren’t because they can be disproved through logic, common sense or physical evidence. “In fact, the moon is a large piece of cheese.” It is a fact that those words are written: the evidence is right there. It does not make it a fact that the moon is a large piece of cheese. That can be proven in several ways, but can anyone prove that the moon is a large piece of cheese? Because of social media, or perhaps even before, in the age of typewriters and party-line telephones, along with pulp fiction, comics, tabloids and more leisure time people have become spendthrifts of words, much less responsible for what they spew out and the consequences have mushroomed into what we call fake news. News is supposed to be fact. Anyone now can make up any “fact” to suit their needs. Perhaps that is another reason why we can’t get a grip on the world’s real problems – what are the facts?

    1. As to the question, ” but can anyone prove that the moon is a large piece of cheese? ” — Now that people have been there and seen the Moon up close there are probably no more people who think the Moon is a piece of cheese … but given the wide variety of cheeses available …. and the fact that ingredients can change …. and techniques for making the cheese … is there anyone who can prove beyond a shadow of doubt that the Moon is not a piece of cheese? And if they were to try to prove their theorem one way or the other would the dominant majority accept their premise and thus convert the theorem into a “Fact” or would the world be any the better for knowing whether or not the Moon is cheese?

      1. You’re having a lot of fun with this, aren’t you! Would the world be better off? Isn’t that the $billion dollar question! No more so, methinks, than knowing that people of our times actually walked on the moon, or never went near it. How to put this short and sweet. Facts, unencumbered by human thought about them, are facts. A thing is what it is and it isn’t something else… until it is turned into something else for someone’s agenda. So, let’s see: a fact can be changed, but that doesn’t change the nature of the fact. I think that’s already been said. Perhaps there are no such things as facts. Perhaps all lies are true. Perhaps I own a horse and he’s in the bathroom having a shower. Perhaps we live in a magical universe and we’ve messed up our little playground and we’re fighting over the consequences of our remarkably bad manners. Perhaps, as I’ve learned over the long and short years, we need to simply accept that what is, is what is, and that there is a world of difference between what is, and a scientifically, mathematically observed fact. My greatest difficulty, until I learned about compassion, was allowing others to have their “what is, is” without the need to convince them otherwise, i.e., telling them that they were wrong. I’d like to believe I’ve succeeded in that but I doubt it. Don’t know where that leaves me, or any of us. “Father, forgive me for I have sinned…”?

      2. First of all facts cannot be unencumbered by human thought because they are subject to human thought.

        All lies may indeed be true as you say but if that is the case then all that is perceived as truth might also be lies.

        It is not beyond belief that someone could have a horse they keep in the house with them and that the horse might be taking a shower. That is perfectly plausible although it might be a little eccentric to some people’s way of thinking.

        Scientific “Facts” have a way of changing. — To illustrate, just watch and see how the supposedly scientific Medical Community changes their view over the years about what is and is not good for people.

        People who are willing to accept what is as what is and leave it at that are never going to do anything that advances the status quo.

        All have sinned and come short of The Glory of God.

        And yes, I am having fun with this!

    2. There is the rub…logic, common sense and physical evidence….too many will not use either…they prefer to believe what is told to them and then defend it endless without investigating….chuq

      1. A final bit from me on “facts.”

        This may be regurgitation, but I see something here that I’ve run across on discussion groups about god, religion, evolution… you know, the usual circular bitter arguments and whether god exists or not. If this were a “does god exist” discussion, instead of “are facts, facts” I’d put it in two simple categories that would allow for both “yes and no” being actually correct. Does god exist as a fact?

        There are billions of people who are convinced that he/it does. More than do not believe it. That makes the existence of god a philosophical and psychological fact. This is the area where god exists as fact and cannot be logically argued against. There are many (most) scientists and observers in the material realm who say there is no material/physical evidence for the existence of god therefore god does not exist. That makes god a non-existent entity. On this plane of observation god cannot exist. The fact here is that god does not exist.

        This is the stance I’ve always taken about all things. My personal balancing mental mechanism in dealing in facts is, all things exist, I just have to find their level of existence to determine whether their existence affects me “right now” in what I’m thinking, writing, or doing. Do pink elephants that fly exist? Yes, in the realm of my imagination and creativity, they exist. I can “see” them with my mind. Do they affect my physical/material existence? No. In this realm they have no substance because they cannot impinge power/energy upon it, not unless I want to make myself into a complete fool and insist, by whatever means available, that they exist. Not unless I can convince enough people that they exist so they join me in my delusion. But in this plane of existence I still don’t have a fact, all I have is a bigger delusion.

        Let’s push this a bit: I believe that pink elephants exist in imagination. I take that belief and force-drag it into physical reality by claiming that I can harness a pink flying elephant to my car and it can pull me across the skies, like Santa’s reindeer. Will it work in this realm? No. Observation dictates that this not a logically debatable concept.

        A final one: do fish exist? I’m looking around the room here and I don’t see any fish. At this point, fish don’t exist. Someone comes to me and explains that in a watery environment there are fish if I care to go there and observe. I go there and see the fish: they exist, in water. So I decide to bring some fish to live in my apartment. They die. My apartment has air, not water; not a suitable environment for the fish. Ergo, we need to keep our facts in their suitable environment or they become baseless.

        Facts are facts but the physical/material universe only accepts those facts that fit with its own nature.

  5. I love English; it’s so slippery….

    It is clear from the comments, truth is relative, because humans have the ability to deny reality in favor of belief. It is somewhat encouraging that at least some folk have grasped the following ‘fact’ as ‘asserted’ by a rather smart man….

    “If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.” — Bertrand Russell

    All of us were issued a ‘crap detector’ at birth. Some of us still have it, whereas, most people are convinced to shut it off, and listen to authority, i.e. parents, clergy, talking heads, etc…. It’s pretty finely tuned, from the outset, if one learns to pay attention to that little inner voice… the part of us that is still connected to what is real, and what is not…

    gigoid, the dubious

    1. Gigoid references Bertrand Russell thus: “If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.”” —– John Liming says, “If fifty million people say a foolish thing in the presence of another fifty million people then there is a 50/50 chance that what is considered as foolish by the first fifty million people might find a challenge to whether or not it is foolish among the other fifty million people thus opening the possibility that if enough members of the second fifty million people start contesting the beliefs of the first fifty million, the thing that was orginally considered as foolish could end us as being considered as wise. Bertrand Russell limited his potentials in his argument and that allows for half a potential to develop.”

      1. I guess foolishness comes in different sizes…


        It really isn’t that complex a subject; like engineering, with ideas, elegance and efficiency come with simplicity. I think Bertrand’s body of work, and his reputation, makes it pretty clear how simple it is to fool those who don’t wish to think, preferring to parrot anything that supports their own preconceived notions.


      2. Like as if Russell himself was completely unable to entertain any thought that did not support his own preconceived notions. Most geniuses operate from a set of preconceived notions that are a lot different from those of “The Herd.”

    2. Since the inherent inborn “Crap Detector” will have inherited some of its genetic structure from the dna of the ancestors then the ability of the crap detector to detect crap will be limited by the accumulated common perceptions of those ancestors and will therefore be biased enough in operation to skew or to dilute the results of trying to use it and so “Paying attention to that small inner voice” will be nothing more than drawing on the accumulated biases of those who went before and who contrubuted to the dna of the one trying to use the inner voice and this is a constant because any individual being is nothing more or less than the accumulation of all the elements that made up all those individuals who went before and the limits of individual conceptualization can go no farther than the accumulated experience and developed biases of the observer of things passing by his perceptions. What is real and what is not real therefore is still no more or less than what the one defining what is real and what is not’s willingness or ability to get beyond everything that is ingrained. A most difficult task if not an imposibility. The Oak Tree cannot morph into a Pine. Water cannot, by the force of self-will, become water. That which is, is and facts are not stable or constant regardless of all denials to the contrary and until civilization can get past that impediment they will never progress beyond the savages they have been and still are.

    1. I went to your blog and apparently your comments are turned off or I do not know how they work. Hmmm! BTW — facts can only mattere when someone is smart enough to know what they are. The facts embraced by the Republicans are totally different than the facts embraced by the Democrats and oddly enough … interestingly enough … they are usually the same “Facts” seen through different bias — just like I have been saying all along and just like some people cannot seem to wrap their heads around …. probably because of one bias or another.

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